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Major complaints on new version of gimp

Sep 11, 2012, 07:22 (This post was last modified: Sep 11, 2012 07:29 by NewUser.)
Post: #1
Major complaints on new version of gimp
Hi,

So i joined these forums just to say to express my opinion on new gimp. Sure, i like som big improvements of new gimp, but i really want to emphasize the importance of things that should be reverted(changed the way it used to be in older gimps).

My personal most used commands in gimp are letter "m" and letter "t" for move and text editing. And with an amazing feature as layer folders, these commands are even more used!

1. So lets say i want to create a logo, i press "t", create logo title. Then i double layer. Do some effects. Later i want to edit the text. I move it down. Sooner or later i have to edit text again(or logo) and heres the problem:

in older gimps you just select WANTED text layer, press "t" and you edit it. Here you, select wanted layer, press "t", then select your wanted layer again. It happends all the time where text layers are overlapping(invisible borders too big or something) and pressing "t" it selects upper text layer.

And it happends all the time, i have to select my wanted text layer twice..always! WHY? Whats the point in that.

2. Then there is move feature where you select your wanted layer, press anywhere on canvas, press "m" and then you move it.
BUT why on earth in layer tab, it rearanges so that selected layer is the first. So if i move 1 layer, then i have to scroll up to be able to see other layers, then select another one, move it. then scroll more in layers tab.. This wasnt in previouse gimps, and its just so inconveniant!

3. There is text editing itself. Whatever text i write i cannot see, because there is no dialog box like in older gimps where i see all the pharagraphs and i can delete few sentences here and there. Now its just impossible. Especially when you dublicate text and try different fonts.

There are other bad things like half cut icons in layer tab(too big icons that doesnt fit its place or something..)
After some work and minimising maximising gimp, you loose all your main tool icons.
Inconveniant sliders 0-100 or from 0-255 without incremental change.
paint, paintbrush, pencil brush size which is from 0 - 10000 where it is only usable from 0-200 even on big canvas...(hard to reduce or make it bigger by repeatedly pressing on that slidder to make it bigger by a step of 10. Where you increase/reduce brush size by 10 each time you press on that slider no matter where.

P.S. i think i posted this in wrong forum thread, it should be in gimp general maybe?
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Sep 11, 2012, 11:32
Post: #2
RE: Major complaints on new version of gimp
Hey man, thanks for info. i some how havent noticed that "use editor" function! Its just awesome now. Too bad i cant put a keyboard shortcut on that to turn it on as often as i need!
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Sep 12, 2012, 10:16
Post: #3
Sad RE: Major complaints on new version of gimp
My major problem is the way that the Gimp now deals with bitmap files (and probably any other filetype that isn't XCF).

Now, it seems that you can't simply "Save" a bitmap file you've just edited.
You have to click on "Overwrite", and then close without saving.
If you're lucky you're image will be OK, but I have (more often than not) seen that the colour depth is changed.

For the application I am using, it is IMPERATIVE that the file size, format and properties (especially the colour depth) are unchanged, or the picture will not display correctly.
(No - I can't change the program doing the displaying.)

Looking at the unedited file, the image size is 470 KB, width is 800 px, height 600 px, horizontal and vertical resolution both 72 dpi, Bit depth is 8 and Frame count is 1

If I import this into Gimp 2.8, and then choose "Overwrite" (Export the image back to the imported file in the import format) without making any changes to the image there's no problem and the file remains in the same format.
If, however, I make some changes to the image and then overwrite the file, the file grows to 1407 KB, and the Bit Depth has increased to 24... Huh. Other file properties remain unchanged.

On a related note, where is it getting the 24 bit colour depth from anyhow? I'm running in 32-bit colour depth on my display.

On Gimp 2.6, I could simply open the file, make my changes and then exit - saving the file.
The file properties were not changed and the image was correctly displayed in my application.

I can only assume there was a really good reason for making this change, but I'm sticking with GIMP version 2.6, where I can simply hit "save" or "Exit" and my bitmap *will* be written back in the original file format and with the *same* file properties.
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Sep 12, 2012, 20:30
Post: #4
RE: Major complaints on new version of gimp
(Sep 12, 2012 14:21)ofnuts Wrote:  Yes, it's a design decision. Allowing people to "save" to JPG/PNG/GIF gives them a chance to lose work (layers, selections, paths...) that won't be saved in a JPG/PNG/GIF. And this indeed happens, there are several call for help after this kind of mishap on this forum and others. So now "Save" is only for the complete thing and the rest is dealt with in "Export".

I can accept this - it seems fairly reasonable.

(Sep 12, 2012 14:21)ofnuts Wrote:  Colour depth isn't changed unless you changed it in Gimp. Or there is a bug that you can report.

I'll do just that I believe.
The exact steps I carried out were as follows:
Open (import) a .BMP picture.
Export the picture (check that the file and attributes are the same - colour depth 8-bit).
Use the pencil to draw some random lines in black.
Export the picture (colour depth now mysteriously 24-bit).

Including finding the file, and looking at the properties this probably took about 5 minutes.

(Sep 12, 2012 14:21)ofnuts Wrote:  
(Sep 12, 2012 10:16)Chunker Wrote:  For the application I am using, it is IMPERATIVE that the file size, format and properties (especially the colour depth) are unchanged.

Well that doesn't mean there is a requirement on Gimp... you may have been lucky so far.

I'm not saying that the fact I need thigs to stay the same is a requirement on Gimp - just extra information on where I'm coming from.

(Sep 12, 2012 14:21)ofnuts Wrote:  Looks like your grayscale image got upgraded to full RGB. And a B&W RGB image isn't the same thing as a grayscale image. But even if you change the image back to grayscale before exporting to JPG you may not get the very same encoding as originally.

It's not a greyscale image, it's a low-res colour BMP image (no run-legth encoding).

(Sep 12, 2012 14:21)ofnuts Wrote:  See above. 32-bit color display? You are a very rich man. True 24-bit displays are already out of reach for most of us. Real consumer-grade displays are more like 6-bit/channel.
All I said was I was using 32-bit colour depth on the display (which is what Windows on that box was telling me). I know nothing about the innards of my display.

(Sep 12, 2012 14:21)ofnuts Wrote:  Actually there is a bug in 2.8.0 which make Gimp forget the previous settings for export. Normally fixed in 2.8.2.

Not sure which version I was using as this was on a box at work, but I downloaded and installed it about half an hour before positing so I guess it was the latest version.

I have 2.6 installed on my usual PC at work, but I seem to remember running foul of this problem when I upgraded on a Linux box so was wary of installing it there. As a result, I used another windows box to try it out, with the results I feared.


One final note - it may seem that I'm bashing both you and the program.

This is definitely NOT the case - I first found the Gimp quite some time ago, and I have used it ever since - I think it's a great program, and am amazed it's free - its features are almost the same as things like Photoshop which will cost you about US$ 400.

Similarly, you reply very quickly, concisely and clearly. From what I read, I would also say that you know what you're talking about.
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Sep 13, 2012, 08:18
Post: #5
RE: Major complaints on new version of gimp
(Sep 12, 2012 21:02)ofnuts Wrote:  Hmm. How do you determine "color depth"? Can you post before/after files (or extracts)?
I hope I have attached the files.
"Colour depth" is what I see on the Windoows Properties of the file.

Looking more closely, I think I can see where the problem is coming from:
If you look at the image properties in the Gimp, when the file is just imported, you see the following:
"Color Space: Indexed color (256 colors)"

After I have added my artistic black squiggle I see:
"Color Space: RGB color"

(Sep 12, 2012 21:02)ofnuts Wrote:  Hmm, then either it's indexed and got de-indexed on the fly or it's encoded with some ancient 2-3-3 color encoding scheme that's lost by the BMP plugin. But that has to be checked on the before/after files.

You're right - it seems to have been "de-indexed on the fly".

While making these before and after pictures, I discovered that this behaviour is not entirely consistent - There were occasions where the file wasn't de-indexed, and overwriting didn't change the file format.
It seems that if you use the "Export" button, it will always de-index, but if you use the "Overwrite" button it may or may not - depending on how it feels Huh
Something else I discovered was that if I run the Gimp on this XP box in a remote terminal session from a Win-7 box (was trying to do this to record my keypresses using the "problem steps recorder"), then the Gimp crashed with an unhandled C++ exception.


Attached File(s)
.bmp  Sample - Before.BMP (Size: 469.8 KB / Downloads: 91)
.bmp  Sample - After.BMP (Size: 1.37 MB / Downloads: 92)
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Sep 13, 2012, 10:59
Post: #6
RE: Major complaints on new version of gimp
This is curious - I have had the same problem on more than one machine.

As I said, it isn't a problem that always shows up, just most of the time...
Maybe I'll check if I've got 282
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Sep 13, 2012, 11:03
Post: #7
RE: Major complaints on new version of gimp
yes - it says it's 2.8.2
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Sep 13, 2012, 11:29
Post: #8
RE: Major complaints on new version of gimp
maybe I'll wait until the next version and try that one - I may simply have to stick with the "older" 2.6, which I use on my normal box.

Thanks for the help...
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Sep 13, 2012, 15:10 (This post was last modified: Sep 13, 2012 15:13 by Chunker.)
Post: #9
RE: Major complaints on new version of gimp
(Sep 13, 2012 12:20)paynekj Wrote:  Assuming you're still going to come back here and look...

You talk at one point about recording key-presses. Does this mean you are using the keyboard shortcuts to open the files and save/export them. I ask because 2.8 has changed some of the keyboard shortcuts and I wonder if you are now using a keyboard combination that changes the image mode.

Thanks for "thinking out of the box" a bit.
No - I was looking at trying to record mouse clicks - I said key-presses by mistake.
I have no idea what most of the shortcut keys in the Gimp are.

The main root of my problem may be the "very old" BMP header format.
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Sep 17, 2012, 18:33
Post: #10
RE: Major complaints on new version of gimp
my major problem is you HAVE to go file-export image!!! you can't just save a jpg using the file-save option!!!
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