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Feather effect changed for 2.8?

May 11, 2012, 09:38
Post: #1
Feather effect changed for 2.8?
In 2.6, when I had a Selection and wanted to delete the surrounding area in a gradual, smooth way, you obviously just go Feather > Select > then apply the desired amount of the gradient.

While that seems to be somewhat similar in 2.8, there appear to be two major differences:

1) The Feather effect now also smooths out the selection itself. So when I select the outline of a human figure and set the effect number high, it smooths the shape out so that it's basically just an oval.

In the past, the Feather Effect did not alter the shape of the Selection for me. Why is this different, now?

2) The Feather effect itself - the color gradiation - is now much less evident. It seems to now just make the whole image dimmer. Does anybody know why this is and how I can get it to behave as it did in 2.6? (I use this a TON.)

[Image: FeatheringProblem.png]
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May 11, 2012, 17:45
Post: #2
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Thanks for the replies, OfNuts and Kevin.

It is odd that neither of you can recognize the difference, because it's so stark in my usage. But I absolutely trust and believe you guys when you say that there's no real difference.

But....somehow for MY usage, there definitely is a huge difference in the Feather tool now! (I wonder if maybe I employed some obscure add-on or somehow changed my settings to have made 2.6's Feathering behave so radically different.)

For my use of GIMP, this is very important, as I employed the Feathering in virtually every single image where I had to cut out one item and paste it into a separate image.

So, do you guys (or any lurkers) know of how you can achieve the Feathering - or any identical effect - as it behaved in my personal 2.6? Such that, when you Feather a Selection, it applies a fuzzy gradient to the Selection, but still fully retains the shape of the Selection?

Again, not to beg, but this is fairly important to my personal GIMP usage.
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May 11, 2012, 18:20
Post: #3
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 11, 2012 18:07)ofnuts Wrote:  Feathering is neither an effect nor a tool... it is just a gaussian blur applied to the selection.
Okay. Apart from the semantics, is there a way that, is it did in my 2.6, that the Selection itself will not be deformed by the Feathering?

I want only the gaussian blur when I delete the Selection, not the deformation of the Selection itself.
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May 11, 2012, 20:36 (This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 20:38 by DavidBrennan.)
Post: #4
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Unfortunately, I do not have 2.6 on my computer.

As I said before, I absolutely believe you when you tell me that, for you, Feathering in 2.6 is behaving the same as 2.8. I hope that you'll grant me the same presumption of honesty when I tell you that, for me, it's behaving radically differently.

The Feathering is decidedly deforming the Selection. (What's more, the blur applied is very visually unappealing.)

But I just want to start at square one: be able to make a Selection > Apply a gaussian blur at the Selection > Delete the Selection such that the border of the Selection does not deform and there's a smooth gradient.

This is precisely what Feathering did for me in 2.6. There was obviously something different in our programs.

[Image: Temp-3.png]
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May 12, 2012, 08:27
Post: #5
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 11, 2012 22:45)ofnuts Wrote:  Take a square, apply a gaussian blur. It's no longer a square. In fact it's no longer anything since it has fuzzy borders... (the marching ants are just showing where the average fuzziness is).

The only shape that looks preserved by feathering/blurring is the circle. But not because you start with a circle but because blurring tends to transform anything into a circle.
Yes, this is understood.

What I'm saying is that, for me, in Blender 2.6, when I Feathered a Selection, it did not deform the shape of the Selection, it only applied the Gaussian Blur.

This was tremendously useful to me. I would like to be able to know how to achieve this now in 2.8, because the methodology that worked - for me - in 2.6 behaves radically differently now.

So, does anybody know how you can:
(1) Make a Selection
(2) Have the perimeter of that selection (not a deformed version of it, but the actual selection itself) have a Gaussian Blur applied, and
(3) You then delete the selection such that there's now a smooth, blurred transition between the deleted area and the surrounding area.

For me, in my 2.6 set-up, this is precisely what Feathering did. I understand that other people's GIMP builds or settings did not do this precisely.

I just want to be able to achieve the three steps described above with ease and routine, since I need to do it all the time. Thank you in advance.
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May 12, 2012, 09:27 (This post was last modified: May 12, 2012 10:13 by DavidBrennan.)
Post: #6
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Please observe the picture of Luke Skywalker here:

In 2.6 (for me, not necessarily others), this was achieved very simply:

>I selected the entire rectangular picture
>Selection > Feather

NOTE: At this stage, the Selection did not deform into an oval. It stayed a perfect rectangle.

>Deleted the area outside the Selection (so in the case of this photograph I would have inverted the Selection, obviously.)

This is all that I want to be able to achieve with regularity. That's all.

[Image: 4-Alt-1.png]
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May 12, 2012, 10:14
Post: #7
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Please note that I started a thread about this at the Blender forums, too. Any solutions I'll make sure to share at both sites.
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May 12, 2012, 12:55 (This post was last modified: May 12, 2012 12:57 by DavidBrennan.)
Post: #8
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 12, 2012 12:44)ofnuts Wrote:  
(May 12, 2012 09:27)DavidBrennan Wrote:  Please observe the picture of Luke Skywalker here:

In 2.6 (for me, not necessarily others), this was achieved very simply:

>I selected the entire rectangular picture
>Selection > Feather

NOTE: At this stage, the Selection did not deform into an oval. It stayed a perfect rectangle.
This is different. Here, you are not blurring a rectangle smaller than the image, you are blurring a rectangle the size of the image. So you still get a selection border along the image border, because in that very case nothing gets blurred. This is true in 2.6, and still true in 2.7.

If you want to achieve the effect you see on the Starkiller picture, this is not a mere feather/delete, because there would not be any visible border. What you have above is either a larger, feathered selection followed by a rectangular cut, or better:

- create rectangular selection where you want the visible border to appear
- add layer mask
- fill selection with white-to-black dimpled angular gradient
- start the Levels tool.
- drag rightmost (white) handle toward left, the closer to the black the narrower the
"vanishing zone"
A couple of notes:

First, I created the Luke Skywalker picture in the exact manner as I described:

In (my own personal) 2.6 >
Expand the canvas size so that the borders go to an alpha=0 area >
Select the edges >
Select > Feather >
Delete the inverse.

So the rectangle absolute was smaller than the image. I am 100% positive of this. I did this probably 1,500 times with my GIMP 2.6. It worked beautifully and perfectly and took three seconds.

As I've said before, I understand that other people's 2.6 was not the same. I just wish I knew what the heck my settings were so that I could repeat this, because I have no use for the Feather as it functions now, but a ton of uses for it worked for me on my 2.6.

Secondly, more significant than the blurred borders around a rectangular image, how would you achieve the effect against a human figure (or any other odd shape). For instance, the edges of this Batman (I just did this as an example) are obviously very jagged, and so I'd apply a Gaussian Blur of 8 or 9 to the edges:

[Image: Batman.png]

In the past, this was obviously very simple for me with my old Selection > Feather. Now, I don't know how to do it at all.
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May 12, 2012, 13:28
Post: #9
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
In total, I think that what I'm looking for is:

1) A way that Selection > Feather function provides a blur (not merely a reduction in Opacity) around its perimeter, and
2) A way that that same Selection > Feather function would not round out the Selection when it's applied.

Alternatively, any technique of achieving this independent of Selection > Feather would be hugely appreciated. My most common use for this feature is to create a smooth edge around cut-out human figures as I place them into new background.
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May 12, 2012, 16:47
Post: #10
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 12, 2012 16:07)ofnuts Wrote:  
(May 12, 2012 12:55)DavidBrennan Wrote:  Expand the canvas size so that the borders go to an alpha=0 area
This is still different...
- image on its own layer
- set the selection to the layer rectangle (Layer/Transparency/Alpha to selection)
- feather the selection
- invert the selection
- clear
And you get a rectangle image with vanishing borders, too, because the "clear" only applies to the intersection of the layer and the selection.

Yes, thanks. This doesn't work. The border's edges are still clearly defined and so this technique is useless for good composting.

(May 12, 2012 16:07)ofnuts Wrote:  I think you should abandon this idea. There is no setting for selection feathering, except the width in pixels. The feathering works the same everywhere for everybody. Otherwise I know plenty of scripts that wouldn't work. Get a "portable" version of 2.6

Are you saying that my GIMP 2.6 didn't do this and that I'm lying? Maybe you prance around lying about things to total strangers and so you project that onto others. I never lie.

Please don't call me a liar. Thank you for your efforts, but nothing you've said has been of any use and this is going nowhere.
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May 12, 2012, 19:26
Post: #11
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 12, 2012 19:03)ofnuts Wrote:  I'm not calling anyone a liar and I'm just trying to help. As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If 2.8 doesn't suit you, reinstall 2.6, but if doesn't work as you remembered, I wish you good luck finding the hidden setting because there is none.

The thought that I could be a very evolved and sneaky troll is however hilarious.
I'm aware of how much you've helped people out - including me - and so I would never call you a troll because that's just wrong.

But it was the repetitive "solutions" that don't remotely solve the issue - simply trying to get a smooth dissolve around Selection edges, as I was able to do before - and, as I interpreted it, calling me a liar (apparently an incorrect interpretation) - that caused me to speak harshly.

I'm very grateful for all of your assistance to me and others, but this exchange has yielded nothing except for something I stipulated in the second darn post: that there was something very unique about my GIMP 2.6 set-up. I'm well past that. Now, I'm just trying to be able to generate the same effect as I was able to do so easily before.
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May 14, 2012, 19:25
Post: #12
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
If anybody could please create an add-on/script which applies Feathering but does not deform the Selection, I would be hugely, hugely, hugely grateful.

I have no money, but if there's any other service I could exchange for this, I would do so. This is very vital to my everyday GIMP usage.

Please PM me for any questions or details. I'll be happy to talk with anybody.
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May 15, 2012, 13:48
Post: #13
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Thank you for the suggestion, but this doesn't do any good because it doesn't apply any gradual opacity/blur to the Selection.

But, yes, I know how to save a Selection itself.
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May 15, 2012, 14:54 (This post was last modified: May 15, 2012 15:37 by DavidBrennan.)
Post: #14
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 15, 2012 14:35)paynekj Wrote:  So now I'm completely confused about what you're asking for.

Just to clarify things have a look at this diagram:


I understand that you want the fade across the horizontal and vertical edges, but at the corner I don't understand what you expect to happen.

To me, I would expect the effect of the blend from both sides to combine and therefore fade from a greater distance inside the selection - leading to the appearance that the selection has been rounded.

Kevin
In that case, the end result would basically just look as though you had the square and then applied a Gaussian Blur to the whole thing. (Of course, this is assuming it were a simple monochromatic box. If the box were a photo, then the designated distance in from the Selected Edges would obviously not get blurred.)

So, yeah, the corners of the final selection do appear a little bit rounded (all of the crooks and nannies of a given shape do), but (1) at a consistently symmetrical distance from the Selection, and (2) obviously not to the gross extent that occurs in the current Feathering.

From the user's standpoint, such an option would probably be best employed with a checkbox in the Feathering dialogue: "Deform Selection". If the user checks that box then the Feathering does what it's now doing in 2.8. If not, then the Feathering just applies the Gaussian Blur and/or Opacity (however it works....I guess in a perfect world, the user could choose either one) with no distortion of the Selection.
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May 15, 2012, 15:24
Post: #15
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 15, 2012 15:15)paynekj Wrote:  One final question before I give up...

You haven't got the "Feather edges" tool option selected when doing the selection have you?
I'm not sure what you mean by "give up" since it doesn't appear you did anything.

I've tried it with the tool selected and unselected.
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