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Feather effect changed for 2.8?

May 11, 2012, 09:38
Post: #1
Feather effect changed for 2.8?
In 2.6, when I had a Selection and wanted to delete the surrounding area in a gradual, smooth way, you obviously just go Feather > Select > then apply the desired amount of the gradient.

While that seems to be somewhat similar in 2.8, there appear to be two major differences:

1) The Feather effect now also smooths out the selection itself. So when I select the outline of a human figure and set the effect number high, it smooths the shape out so that it's basically just an oval.

In the past, the Feather Effect did not alter the shape of the Selection for me. Why is this different, now?

2) The Feather effect itself - the color gradiation - is now much less evident. It seems to now just make the whole image dimmer. Does anybody know why this is and how I can get it to behave as it did in 2.6? (I use this a TON.)

[Image: FeatheringProblem.png]
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May 11, 2012, 15:25
Post: #2
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Don't confuse the selection and its visualization. AFAIK the selection is identical, but in 2.8 the visualization has been improved. The 2.6 "ants" where really the jagged frontier between the pixels with selection <=127 and those >=128. 2.8 has a smoother line.

Feathering the selection never had any effect on color?

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May 11, 2012, 16:22 (This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 16:25 by paynekj.)
Post: #3
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
I can't detect any difference between the two versions (2.6.7 and 2.8.0)

2.6.7 on the left. 2.8.0 on the right
   

When I overlay one on top of the other in difference mode I get an almost completely black image.

I made this image by creating the selection on a patterned background (not feathered). Filling it with red, then inverting the selection and feathering it 40 then deleting the selection.

Kevin
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May 11, 2012, 17:45
Post: #4
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Thanks for the replies, OfNuts and Kevin.

It is odd that neither of you can recognize the difference, because it's so stark in my usage. But I absolutely trust and believe you guys when you say that there's no real difference.

But....somehow for MY usage, there definitely is a huge difference in the Feather tool now! (I wonder if maybe I employed some obscure add-on or somehow changed my settings to have made 2.6's Feathering behave so radically different.)

For my use of GIMP, this is very important, as I employed the Feathering in virtually every single image where I had to cut out one item and paste it into a separate image.

So, do you guys (or any lurkers) know of how you can achieve the Feathering - or any identical effect - as it behaved in my personal 2.6? Such that, when you Feather a Selection, it applies a fuzzy gradient to the Selection, but still fully retains the shape of the Selection?

Again, not to beg, but this is fairly important to my personal GIMP usage.
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May 11, 2012, 18:07
Post: #5
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Feathering is neither an effect nor a tool... it is just a gaussian blur applied to the selection.

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May 11, 2012, 18:20
Post: #6
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 11, 2012 18:07)ofnuts Wrote:  Feathering is neither an effect nor a tool... it is just a gaussian blur applied to the selection.
Okay. Apart from the semantics, is there a way that, is it did in my 2.6, that the Selection itself will not be deformed by the Feathering?

I want only the gaussian blur when I delete the Selection, not the deformation of the Selection itself.
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May 11, 2012, 20:02
Post: #7
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
But there is no deformation... you ought to get the very same final selection between 2.6 and 2.8.

Try this:
- Start 2.6
- Create a new image (white background)
- Add black layer
- Draw shape with freehand
- Save to channel
- Feather selection
- [Delete]->blurry white shape on black background
- merge down, name "2.6"
- save as XCF
- Start 2.8
- load image
- add white and black layers
- restore selection from saved channel
- feather 30px
- select black layer
- [delete] -> same blurry white shape, but how much "same"?
- merge down, name "2.8"
- put 2.8 in "difference" mode- > image goes black
- Layer/new from visible -> new black layer, but how perfectly black
- start histogram dialog on "visible": you will only find values of "0" and "1" (yes, a good deal of "1", almost half, due to round of errors).

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May 11, 2012, 20:36 (This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 20:38 by DavidBrennan.)
Post: #8
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Unfortunately, I do not have 2.6 on my computer.

As I said before, I absolutely believe you when you tell me that, for you, Feathering in 2.6 is behaving the same as 2.8. I hope that you'll grant me the same presumption of honesty when I tell you that, for me, it's behaving radically differently.

The Feathering is decidedly deforming the Selection. (What's more, the blur applied is very visually unappealing.)

But I just want to start at square one: be able to make a Selection > Apply a gaussian blur at the Selection > Delete the Selection such that the border of the Selection does not deform and there's a smooth gradient.

This is precisely what Feathering did for me in 2.6. There was obviously something different in our programs.

[Image: Temp-3.png]
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May 11, 2012, 22:45
Post: #9
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Take a square, apply a gaussian blur. It's no longer a square. In fact it's no longer anything since it has fuzzy borders... (the marching ants are just showing where the average fuzziness is).

The only shape that looks preserved by feathering/blurring is the circle. But not because you start with a circle but because blurring tends to transform anything into a circle.

The only good way to see a feathered selection is to use the quickmask mode.

"Feathering" a selection is also giving the same selection value to all pixels at some distance X of the original "sharp" selection. But the set of points at a given X distance from a square draw quarters of circles around the corners of the square.. so I have a very hard time imagining how you expect a feathered square.

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May 12, 2012, 08:27
Post: #10
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 11, 2012 22:45)ofnuts Wrote:  Take a square, apply a gaussian blur. It's no longer a square. In fact it's no longer anything since it has fuzzy borders... (the marching ants are just showing where the average fuzziness is).

The only shape that looks preserved by feathering/blurring is the circle. But not because you start with a circle but because blurring tends to transform anything into a circle.
Yes, this is understood.

What I'm saying is that, for me, in Blender 2.6, when I Feathered a Selection, it did not deform the shape of the Selection, it only applied the Gaussian Blur.

This was tremendously useful to me. I would like to be able to know how to achieve this now in 2.8, because the methodology that worked - for me - in 2.6 behaves radically differently now.

So, does anybody know how you can:
(1) Make a Selection
(2) Have the perimeter of that selection (not a deformed version of it, but the actual selection itself) have a Gaussian Blur applied, and
(3) You then delete the selection such that there's now a smooth, blurred transition between the deleted area and the surrounding area.

For me, in my 2.6 set-up, this is precisely what Feathering did. I understand that other people's GIMP builds or settings did not do this precisely.

I just want to be able to achieve the three steps described above with ease and routine, since I need to do it all the time. Thank you in advance.
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May 12, 2012, 09:27 (This post was last modified: May 12, 2012 10:13 by DavidBrennan.)
Post: #11
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Please observe the picture of Luke Skywalker here:

In 2.6 (for me, not necessarily others), this was achieved very simply:

>I selected the entire rectangular picture
>Selection > Feather

NOTE: At this stage, the Selection did not deform into an oval. It stayed a perfect rectangle.

>Deleted the area outside the Selection (so in the case of this photograph I would have inverted the Selection, obviously.)

This is all that I want to be able to achieve with regularity. That's all.

[Image: 4-Alt-1.png]
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May 12, 2012, 10:14
Post: #12
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
Please note that I started a thread about this at the Blender forums, too. Any solutions I'll make sure to share at both sites.
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May 12, 2012, 12:44
Post: #13
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 12, 2012 09:27)DavidBrennan Wrote:  Please observe the picture of Luke Skywalker here:

In 2.6 (for me, not necessarily others), this was achieved very simply:

>I selected the entire rectangular picture
>Selection > Feather

NOTE: At this stage, the Selection did not deform into an oval. It stayed a perfect rectangle.
This is different. Here, you are not blurring a rectangle smaller than the image, you are blurring a rectangle the size of the image. So you still get a selection border along the image border, because in that very case nothing gets blurred. This is true in 2.6, and still true in 2.7.

If you want to achieve the effect you see on the Starkiller picture, this is not a mere feather/delete, because there would not be any visible border. What you have above is either a larger, feathered selection followed by a rectangular cut, or better:

- create rectangular selection where you want the visible border to appear
- add layer mask
- fill selection with white-to-black dimpled angular gradient
- start the Levels tool.
- drag rightmost (white) handle toward left, the closer to the black the narrower the
"vanishing zone"

[attachment=1151]

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May 12, 2012, 12:55 (This post was last modified: May 12, 2012 12:57 by DavidBrennan.)
Post: #14
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
(May 12, 2012 12:44)ofnuts Wrote:  
(May 12, 2012 09:27)DavidBrennan Wrote:  Please observe the picture of Luke Skywalker here:

In 2.6 (for me, not necessarily others), this was achieved very simply:

>I selected the entire rectangular picture
>Selection > Feather

NOTE: At this stage, the Selection did not deform into an oval. It stayed a perfect rectangle.
This is different. Here, you are not blurring a rectangle smaller than the image, you are blurring a rectangle the size of the image. So you still get a selection border along the image border, because in that very case nothing gets blurred. This is true in 2.6, and still true in 2.7.

If you want to achieve the effect you see on the Starkiller picture, this is not a mere feather/delete, because there would not be any visible border. What you have above is either a larger, feathered selection followed by a rectangular cut, or better:

- create rectangular selection where you want the visible border to appear
- add layer mask
- fill selection with white-to-black dimpled angular gradient
- start the Levels tool.
- drag rightmost (white) handle toward left, the closer to the black the narrower the
"vanishing zone"
A couple of notes:

First, I created the Luke Skywalker picture in the exact manner as I described:

In (my own personal) 2.6 >
Expand the canvas size so that the borders go to an alpha=0 area >
Select the edges >
Select > Feather >
Delete the inverse.

So the rectangle absolute was smaller than the image. I am 100% positive of this. I did this probably 1,500 times with my GIMP 2.6. It worked beautifully and perfectly and took three seconds.

As I've said before, I understand that other people's 2.6 was not the same. I just wish I knew what the heck my settings were so that I could repeat this, because I have no use for the Feather as it functions now, but a ton of uses for it worked for me on my 2.6.

Secondly, more significant than the blurred borders around a rectangular image, how would you achieve the effect against a human figure (or any other odd shape). For instance, the edges of this Batman (I just did this as an example) are obviously very jagged, and so I'd apply a Gaussian Blur of 8 or 9 to the edges:

[Image: Batman.png]

In the past, this was obviously very simple for me with my old Selection > Feather. Now, I don't know how to do it at all.
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May 12, 2012, 13:28
Post: #15
RE: Feather effect changed for 2.8?
In total, I think that what I'm looking for is:

1) A way that Selection > Feather function provides a blur (not merely a reduction in Opacity) around its perimeter, and
2) A way that that same Selection > Feather function would not round out the Selection when it's applied.

Alternatively, any technique of achieving this independent of Selection > Feather would be hugely appreciated. My most common use for this feature is to create a smooth edge around cut-out human figures as I place them into new background.
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