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Color Management

Dec 5, 2013, 20:35
Post: #1
Color Management
Hi.

Today I was viewing the same JPG in Windows Photo Viewer and Gimp.
They look different.
Gimp is a tiny less saturated.
Same results when comparing FastPictureViewer to Gimp.
So I rebooted.
Same results after rebooting.

My monitor is calibrated with a Datacolor Spyder3.
I do a full calibration every six months.
I don't leave the Spyder3 hooked up.
Spyder3 says "65 days until recalibration".

In Gimp preferences... Color Management...
..."Mode of operation" = "color managed display"
..."Monitor profile" = the Spyder3-created monitor profile.
..."RGB profile" and "CMYK profile" = "None".
..."Display rendering intent" = "Perceptual" ...whatever that means

So when I change "RGB profile" to the Spyder3-created monitor profile,
Windows Photo Viewer and Gimp display the JPG about the same.

So is that how I should leave it?
Or am I doing something wrong?
Does CMYK just have to do with printing?
If "RGB profile" if set to "None", won't GIMP get the RGB profile from the file?
If so, why is Windows Photo Viewer and Gimp displaying differently?

???
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Dec 6, 2013, 07:21
Post: #2
RE: Color Management
This is a mini-stab but something a photographer mentor taught me. When working with photos its important you have a nuetral color background (like grey) so it doesn't impact your negative after-color that you see with your eyes.

I see the difference, less stress/information for the eyes to process.

So try making the padding of your canvas/image window grey & dark grey, does the image look different/better?

"Edit > preference > Image Windows > Appearance"[/b]
Under [b]Default Appearance Normal mode
[] Custom padding color:

=======
"perceptual" would try to estimate the best color output that you would perceive with your eyes.
You can try the other options on the "Display rendering intent:" restart gimp each time unless you see an immediate change after clicking "ok"
=======
If after changing the Display rendering intent, nothing, change it back to "perceptual, then...
Maybe your monitor profile is conflicting with gimp somehow. Try switching
"Monitor profile:" to "none" restart gimp if no change is seen.
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Dec 6, 2013, 09:21 (This post was last modified: Dec 6, 2013 09:22 by rich2005.)
Post: #3
RE: Color Management
Quote:Today I was viewing the same JPG in Windows Photo Viewer and Gimp.
They look different. - Gimp is a tiny less saturated.
Same results when comparing FastPictureViewer to Gimp.

Not all applications will enforce a color profile if it is embedded in the image and just fall back to RGB.
There is a video on color spaces (long)
http://blog.meetthegimp.org/episode-195-whose-rgb/


Quote:My monitor is calibrated with a Datacolor Spyder3
Your are lucky, half the price of a regular monitor.
this is my first stop for easy to understand calibration
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/color-m...inting.htm and
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutoria...oofing.htm
There is also a forum there where you can ask questions.

Quote:In Gimp preferences... Color Management..snip.."Display rendering intent" = "Perceptual" ...whatever that means
Another meet-the-gimp video this time from back in 2008
http://blog.meetthegimp.org/episode-047-...ng-server/

Quote:Does CMYK just have to do with printing?
It depends on what you are printing, for home printing what you see on your monitor (in RGB) you want reproduced by the printer, How often do you get something very dark because the monitor is way too bright?
Yet another meet-the-gimp. They are long but generally very informative.
http://blog.meetthegimp.org/episode-185-...-profiles/

Commercial printing is another matter, might be business cards or menus for your restaurant. The 4 colours CMY and black are overlaid using masks. If you convert a RGB image to CMYK then there is a colour shift. Advice here is use CMYK from the start (ie not GIMP)

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Dec 6, 2013, 17:47
Post: #4
RE: Color Management
Thanks.

I was viewing at fullscreen with all programs.
Black background.

(Dec 6, 2013 07:21)iForStyle007 Wrote:  This is a mini-stab but something a photographer mentor taught me. When working with photos its important you have a nuetral color background (like grey) so it doesn't impact your negative after-color that you see with your eyes.

I see the difference, less stress/information for the eyes to process.

So try making the padding of your canvas/image window grey & dark grey, does the image look different/better?

"Edit > preference > Image Windows > Appearance"[/b]
Under [b]Default Appearance Normal mode
[] Custom padding color:

=======
"perceptual" would try to estimate the best color output that you would perceive with your eyes.
You can try the other options on the "Display rendering intent:" restart gimp each time unless you see an immediate change after clicking "ok"
=======
If after changing the Display rendering intent, nothing, change it back to "perceptual, then...
Maybe your monitor profile is conflicting with gimp somehow. Try switching
"Monitor profile:" to "none" restart gimp if no change is seen.
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Dec 6, 2013, 18:15
Post: #5
RE: Color Management
Ok, wow, thanks, what?
So many words...
That video guy is fun to listen to.
So, the Cambridge links are for DIY calibration?
My Spyder3 does all that stuff, right?

I guess I'll change Gimp "Mode of operation" to "No color management".
And hope my Spyder3 is taking care of everything.

(Dec 6, 2013 09:21)rich2005 Wrote:  
Quote:Today I was viewing the same JPG in Windows Photo Viewer and Gimp.
They look different. - Gimp is a tiny less saturated.
Same results when comparing FastPictureViewer to Gimp.

Not all applications will enforce a color profile if it is embedded in the image and just fall back to RGB.
There is a video on color spaces (long)
http://blog.meetthegimp.org/episode-195-whose-rgb/


Quote:My monitor is calibrated with a Datacolor Spyder3
Your are lucky, half the price of a regular monitor.
this is my first stop for easy to understand calibration
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/color-m...inting.htm and
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutoria...oofing.htm
There is also a forum there where you can ask questions.

Quote:In Gimp preferences... Color Management..snip.."Display rendering intent" = "Perceptual" ...whatever that means
Another meet-the-gimp video this time from back in 2008
http://blog.meetthegimp.org/episode-047-...ng-server/

Quote:Does CMYK just have to do with printing?
It depends on what you are printing, for home printing what you see on your monitor (in RGB) you want reproduced by the printer, How often do you get something very dark because the monitor is way too bright?
Yet another meet-the-gimp. They are long but generally very informative.
http://blog.meetthegimp.org/episode-185-...-profiles/

Commercial printing is another matter, might be business cards or menus for your restaurant. The 4 colours CMY and black are overlaid using masks. If you convert a RGB image to CMYK then there is a colour shift. Advice here is use CMYK from the start (ie not GIMP)
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Dec 6, 2013, 19:06 (This post was last modified: Dec 6, 2013 19:08 by rich2005.)
Post: #6
RE: Color Management
Quote:That video guy is fun to listen to.
Rolf is German, so English is not his native language. He does know what he is talking about. The videos are a bit long because they are not tutorials, they are presented as a video blog.

Quote:So, the Cambridge links are for DIY calibration?
My Spyder3 does all that stuff, right?

The cambridgeincolour site gives all sorts of info. Does the Datacolor software totally take over your monitor, I don't know. The Cambridge forum is a good place to ask these questions.

Quote:I guess I'll change Gimp "Mode of operation" to "No color management".
And hope my Spyder3 is taking care of everything.

I would not do that. Why have any sort of monitor calibration? Surely the Spyder Calibaration produces a monitor profile, "something".icm which goes in the Color Management settings. I use linux so it is a little different from - M$. I think the RGB and CMYK could be ignored, Gimp defaults to an inbuilt sRGB unless otherwise set and does not edit in CMYK.

FWIW, this is what I use http://i.imgur.com/5CywkoV.jpg
might be correct or might not.

---
and a final whinge, does no one ever edit their posts on this forum. Top posting / bulk quoting is evil.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on this forum?

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Dec 7, 2013, 07:49
Post: #7
RE: Color Management
@Top-posting rich's pet peeve(and mostly all vet forum goers):

Ah, he maybe doesn't know forum ettiquette yet, still a forum noob lol he will learn soon enough, I've seen long quote chains on other sites before, looks like a long quote pyramid.

But Also, its a habbit that they do to confirm they read the post(even though not always needed.) A better tactic would be to just quote a short phrase or part of the post with ...(etc.) to save on screen/thread space.

*Chiptape, I hope your taking notes.
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